The episode of the Billings Last Diet Podcast discusses the topic of emotional eating and how to overcome it for successful weight loss and management. Dr. Williams shares his background in weight loss and the establishment of Billings Last Diet, a program focused on sustainable weight loss. Emotional eating is defined as eating for reasons other than physical hunger, often as a coping mechanism for stress, boredom, or other emotions. The physiological and hormonal aspects of emotional eating are explored, including the role of dopamine and its connection to the rewarding feeling of comfort foods.

The importance of conscious, aware eating is emphasized, as opposed to unconscious or mindless eating. Strategies for identifying personal triggers for emotional eating and building positive coping mechanisms, such as physical activity and social support, are discussed. The role of the Billings Last Diet program and its coaches in providing guidance and accountability for managing emotional eating is highlighted. The podcast concludes with a preview of the next episode, which will focus on navigating emotional eating during the holiday season.

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Dr. Jordan Williams 0:06
Welcome. This is our podcast with Billings Last Diet. I’m Dr. Jordan, and this is Dr. Williams, supervising doctors with billings glass diet. Today we’re going to talk about emotional eating and how we can avoid some of those, hold up some of those issues that come along with emotional eating. But before we get started, let’s just introduce you a little bit. Dr Williams, kind of what’s your background with weight loss, and how did you get started in this in this industry?

Dr. Dale Williams 0:31
So we’ve had Billings Last Diet now for 15 years. I was always interested in weight loss and ran some weight loss programs prior to starting billings last diet, but we found a program that really encapsulates what I call successful weight loss, that’s the ability to lose weight and keep it off the rest of the life, of your life.

Dr. Jordan Williams 0:52
15 years Billings Last Diet. And so obviously, through 15 years, you’ve gone through countless educational seminars, countless education for yourself. And so this topic with emotional eating, what is that? What does that look like for you? How have you kind of dealt with that, maybe yourself, or over the last 15 years, with dieters?

Dr. Dale Williams 1:14
So with emotional eating, I like to ask the question, we teach a class called Emotional Eating, kind of a longer version class of it. And and I asked the question at the beginning of the class, raise your hand if you’re an emotional eater. And then I say, if you didn’t really, raise your hand, you lie about other stuff too. So we are all emotional eaters. Some people, however, in their emotional eating, it gets control of their life, and it’s not just a short episode. It becomes their life. And that’s where we can have problems with with excess weight from emotional eating. And so realizing this, in the course of helping people with weight loss, we’ve we’ve seen a need to help people become aware of their emotional eating, which is a big portion of overcoming emotional eating, knowing that you’re emotionally

Dr. Jordan Williams 2:07
Right, starting with knowing the problem is half the battle, right? So what emotional eating? Let’s talk a little bit about what that actually means. I refer to food as kind of people’s adult binkies when they get stressed out, right? And culturally, here in the US specifically, we use food as a training tool for kids. So as a at a young age, we start getting this, this bad relationship with particularly sweets, right? I have two young kids, and so the best way to have my four year old behave is to tell them, Well, I’ll give you a piece of candy if you listen to mom, right? And so those are rewards, that’s exactly right. And so as we, as we build that relationship at a young age, as an adult, it translates to, if I finish my work on time, I’m gonna go get a donut, or if I show up and it’s my birthday, someone will bring me cake, right? And that’s kind of how that relationship starts. And how does that translate into weight loss or weight gain?

Dr. Dale Williams 3:03
Well, as you mentioned, we see it as a reward. Yeah, we use food as a reward. And when we use food as reward as a child, that carries over into our adult life. And so when we I’ve done good, so I get an award as a child is it carries over as an adult, and that can be very unhealthy, because we’re always looking for rewards, right? And we need to find a new way to reward. So in the United States, as you mentioned with with children, I mean, food is is the center of a lot of what we do socially. I mean, we eat when we’re happy, we eat when we’re sad. We eat when we have a wedding, we eat when we have a funeral. We eat when we have birthdays. We I mean, it’s, it’s become and so emotional eating in my definition of an emotional eater, which is why I say everybody’s an emotional eater, is eating when you’re not hungry, right? So if you’re hungry and you eat to feel that hunger, then you’re not emotional eating. But if you’re eating for any other reason, other than to satisfy hunger, not any other but most of the time, it’s it’s for emotional reasons.

Dr. Jordan Williams 4:18
And let’s talk a little bit about just the psychology of and we’re using the term emotional eating, but really that’s just a coping mechanism.

Dr. Dale Williams 4:25
Yes

Dr. Jordan Williams 4:26
and we use coping mechanisms anytime we feel. I’m gonna use the word stressed, and that’s kind of a buzz word lately. But stress can be anything from bored, anxious, tired, you know, depressed or excited, really, any any stress on our on our body and our nervous and our brain is going to trigger a reaction or a response. And so those coping mechanisms, you know, we can name a number of addictions that people have, and those tend to start from. To cope with something or hide from something. So how does that translate with food?

Dr. Dale Williams 5:05
So there is a physiological response when we eat food, particularly foods that we see as a reward,

Dr. Jordan Williams 5:13
comfort foods

Dr. Dale Williams 5:13
which we would call comfort foods, which are generally your less healthy foods. They’re higher in the sugar content, and a lot of times higher in fat content, because they’re more more satisfying,

Dr. Jordan Williams 5:24
they taste better, and then they release that endorphin that says, hey, that’s a reward, right?

Dr. Dale Williams 5:30
Correct. And so the hormonal side of emotional eating is an important component. So cortisol, when you talk about stress, cortisol is a hormone that’s that’s a well known stress hormone, right? And so we get built up cortisol in our body, which throws off the rest of the hormones in our body. And so to try to counteract it, the body wants to produce something to counteract that stress. And so a reward hormone would be dopamine. And so when we eat a sugary or a comfort food, then we get a dopamine hit, and now this starts a cascade of hormonal effects and and there’s a lot of other hormones. Gremlin is another or leptin. Those are, those are appetite and and hunger hormones that all play into this emotional side. So the the hormone side is, is a huge component of emotional eating.

Dr. Jordan Williams 6:23
Well, and and food in general, is about hormonal balance, right? You know, when you intake something that’s going to have a high glycemic index, what that means is it causes your pancreas to pump out insulin because it has high sugar. So it right, makes your blood sugar go up, and then your blood sugar goes down with all the insulin. You absorb all that energy and store it for later. And how do we store extra energy?

Dr. Dale Williams 6:50
Yeah, stored as fat. And insulin is, is the hormone right that opens up the fat storage to say, stored away as fat,

Dr. Jordan Williams 6:56
right? And so really, that weight loss or weight management is not just about food control, but it’s about hormones in general, right?

Dr. Dale Williams 7:05
It’s the food portion of weight loss, really, other than the calories in versus calories out, which is a portion of it. It’s not all of it, right? But the food portion is, how does it relate to the hormones that are produced? And that hormone might be insulin, as you mentioned, but it also might be dopamine

Dr. Jordan Williams 7:24
Right

Dr. Dale Williams 7:25
And how,

Dr. Jordan Williams 7:25
How satisfied, or how, how good it feels to eat that piece of chocolate, right?

Dr. Dale Williams 7:30
Yeah, so on. When we talk about emotional eating, I said the definition is, anytime we’re not eating for hunger, I that’s a hard thing for people, and so when we become aware of our emotional eating habits, I like to encourage people to do what I call the tomato test.

Dr. Jordan Williams 7:51
What now, what’s the tomato test? Walk us through that.

Dr. Dale Williams 7:53
So the tomato test is, I have the thought that I might be hungry, and so in my mind, I take and assess, am I really hungry, or is this a craving, which is a another key word for emotional eating, or is this true hunger? And so I can say through my mind, hmm, I’m hungry. If I eat a tomato, do I want to have a tomato? Or will this tomato satisfy me? If you’re truly hunger, if you have true hunger, eating that tomato will give the calories and a hormonal response that will satisfy your feeling of hunger,

Dr. Jordan Williams 8:34
Okay

Dr. Dale Williams 8:35
If you’re not really, truly physiologically hungry, you eat a tomato you’re still left wanting,

Dr. Jordan Williams 8:42
Right.

Dr. Dale Williams 8:42
You’re still ah, then we know that’s more of a craving or emotional eating. That’s fair, and so that’s a that’s a tip that I like to tell people to do the tomato test. When you go to the fridge and open the fridge, are you really hungry, or are you really just bored? Or…

Dr. Jordan Williams 8:58
keep it tomato right out front. So you go,

Dr. Dale Williams 9:01
there you go. It doesn’t have to be a tomato, but I call it tomato. Some people will say, I hate tomatoes, so I’d never eat, never. But if you were truly hungry, you would eat it. Hungry enough, you’d eat tomato.

Dr. Jordan Williams 9:13
So let’s talk a little bit about that, that psychological cycle that goes through because we talked hormones and and really, when you eat food, there’s this cycle of of hormones that goes through, right? We talked about the insulin. It pumps out, it absorbs all that blood sugar, and then you your blood sugars drop, and then you feel hungry again. It’s you kind of go through this cycle. Same thing happens when we go through that emotional eating cycle, right? So, so when we feel satisfied or comfortable, you know, we we don’t have anything to cope with or anything, but then we hit that stressor. And so what does that look like? What does that what does that cycle look like? And why do we reach for food to satisfy that cycle, as opposed to going for a run or some other activity that might satisfy that?

Dr. Dale Williams 10:01
So what happens when we when we feel depressed or bored or anxious? Our body is looking for something to give us some relief from feeling bored or anxious or stressed,

Dr. Jordan Williams 10:14
Right

Dr. Dale Williams 10:14
And so Dopamine is a reward or a pleasure hormone that overrides that feeling. And so we can get dopamine really easy with food, right? And the problem is, you can take a get a dopamine hit from a little bit of food initially, but just like with any other addiction, if you want to get the same amount of a dopamine hit with that little bit of food you had initially is over time, you have to increase the amount of food. You have make it so sweeter. This is where we eat an Oreo to get a dopamine hit initially. But one Oreo doesn’t do it for us after a while, right? So we eat a sleeve or a whole package of Oreos in order to get that same thing. And that’s where we come into the problem, problem. So that’s that cycle that we go through is, is we we want to overcome that feeling that we have of depression or anxiety, and dopamine is an easy way to do that. You mentioned the exercise and and here’s, here’s your key for helping to overcome that emotional eating is you have to find a new way to get that dopamine hit. It’s not just food. To get dopamine you mentioned running, you can get a euphoric feeling from running. That’s That’s strange. For some people, they would sooner have a pencil stuck in their eye than to run. But for those that have experienced it, they know that’s something, but you can get it through a hug. Can also give you a dopamine it which there’s not any calories involved in a hug.

Dr. Jordan Williams 11:44
You know, it’s interesting. So talking about that dopamine hit it really so when we’re reaching for that food, what we’re reaching for is some way to satisfy that or to cope with that stressor.

Dr. Dale Williams 11:56
And then the trouble is, it doesn’t really feel the niche. And so it’s like sticking a square peg into a round hole. It doesn’t really feel it. That’s why I have to go back for more and more

Dr. Jordan Williams 12:10
Wel, and as you, as you continue to go back for more and more, like you said, it’s less and less and less satisfying. So then you intake more and more and more. So one, one good way. And this is way I’ve I’ve heard it from different studies, psychologists and and the like, will tell you the best way to overcome those, those triggers, right? A trigger, just to clarify that that’s a buzzword these days as well. A trigger is any, any stimulus that is going to cause you to be stressed, to look for those coping mechanisms. So this cycle to begin that starting that trigger, right? And so that can be different for everybody. You know, somebody again, as a child, you know, anytime I tied my shoes, my mom gave me a piece of candy. So now, every time I tie my shoes in the morning, I want candy, right? Or other people, they used food when they, you know, after, I don’t know, they got a good grade on a test. So when they accomplish a task they want, they’re they’re craving something now and and so that’s that can be the trigger and different for everybody. Right? The best way to overcome those triggers, or to step away from those, those coping mechanisms, is to step out of your brain and into your body, and the way you do that through exercise. And that can be yoga for somebody, that can be simply going for a walk for somebody else. It could be weight training for someone else. You have to find what’s going to work for you, because, like you said, for some people, going for runs like sticking a pencil, you’re right. That’s not going to be a dopamine hit. That’s going to be cortisol stress you out, but you might be someone who’s more more apt to go for a walk or to go for a bike ride. You need to be my personal experience going outside and doing that physical activity will satisfy that way more. Yeah, than just a physical physical activity and that there’s other other psychological reasons for that going outside, but stepping out of your mind and into your body will take away that craving most of the time.

Dr. Dale Williams 14:05
And an important component of overcoming the emotional eating is first of all, recognizing, accepting that you’re an emotional eater and then identifying, as you said, the triggers that set that off. And then once that trigger is pulled and you identify that I’m now into this cycle of where I’m looking for a reward, a chemical reward, a dopamine reward, then catching that and saying, Okay, what can I do differently, other than going to Ben and Jerry’s to satisfy that reward?

Dr. Jordan Williams 14:39
Well, and part of that you mentioned, you have to, you have to be self aware. And so if you, if you don’t know your triggers, if you find yourself at nine o’clock at night sitting in front of the TV eating a bag of potato chips every night of the week, or more than, or more than one night of the week, that’s probably a. Coping mechanism for you. And so instead of just saying, Well, this is what I do at nine o’clock at night, go through that evening process. Say, you know, after I put the kids to sleep, I walk out, and immediately I reach for the pantry and open the door. That’s the trigger. So now I need to do something else. I need to break that cycle somehow, and say, instead of reaching for the pantry, I’m going to reach for the front door and walk around the block once, changing that cycle,

Dr. Dale Williams 15:26
Or reach for a book,

Dr. Jordan Williams 15:27
or reach for a book

Dr. Dale Williams 15:28
which is which is another. Can be another reward,

absolutely. Those different you, but you have to be self aware and step back from your routine and say, Where are those triggers, and how can I change that cycle before it happens.

I call it. I call it conscious eating. When you’re conscious eating, you know you’re doing what you’re doing at the time, right? When you go to the movie and they give you the bathtub size tub of popcorn, and you sit through a two and a half hour and the half a gallon soda, yes, and you’ve consumed the pop, that bathtub size and the gallon of pop. You had no idea at the time that you had consumed that, because it was unconscious eating. If you were to sit down at a dinner table with a tub of popcorn and a gallon of pop and not do anything except for eat, and know each time you stick your the popcorn in your mouth and you take a drink that would be called conscious eating, the trouble is, we get into unconscious eating, right? And so if you decide you’re going to eat an Oreo, there’s nothing wrong with eating an Oreo. Enjoy that Oreo, be conscious of what you’re doing. But what happens is when we’re unconsciously eating is when we eat seven Oreos. And say, how many Oreos Did you eat? And you say, I have no idea. That is definition of unconscious eating. So I won’t get too far off on this, but this unconscious eating has become a cultural thing that started I’m gonna date myself back in the 60s and the 70s, when television became the center of eating. And so the TV dinners, you had a TV tray to put a TV dinner on, and you sat in front of the television and ate while watching a program where, before, we never did that, we sat around the table, we had a designated period of time where we ate consciously and we interacted. Now we

Dr. Jordan Williams 17:31
social experience along with, as opposed to isolating yourself, yeah, in front of a TV,

Dr. Dale Williams 17:35
yeah. And now it’s not so much in front of a TV, but you go to a restaurant, and if, even if they’re sitting in a group, a lot of times, we’re scrolling through a anything on a phone or a tablet or something, and that is that that becomes unconscious eating, which is something that you need to catch. You need to break that habit, as you mentioned, do something differently in order to bring that awareness so conscious, eating doesn’t mean you have to be have deprived. When I eat a piece of pie, I’m going to enjoy that piece of pie.

Dr. Jordan Williams 18:09
But you’re not going to have four pieces of pie just because it happens to be there. Yes, right, right. Well, I think part of that problem is is, is the social aspect as well as as as the distraction. Now one good way, and this is this, not just emotional eating, but emotion emotional coping in general, is to make sure you have one an alternative, right, knowing your triggers and knowing when those are coming up, when you’re reaching for the pantry, when you’re reaching for that seventh Oreo, you can stop and say, Oh, I’m I’m stressed right now, or I’m just bored, or I am. Insert your trigger, identify it, identify it, right? And then have someone that you can reach out to, right? That’s, that’s a huge, a huge problem with a lot of people is they’re so isolated. You mentioned eating in front of the TV or in front of your phone, you’ve not isolated yourself to where you don’t feel like you can have the support you need when you’re having those hard or difficult times. And so I think one other, I guess, tip or a way to overcome that emotional eating or those those coping mechanisms, would be to make sure you communicate with the people that you trust, right? How can that affect that whole cycle of not just emotional eating, but those coping mechanisms, just having that support system

Dr. Dale Williams 19:33
So dopamine, which we’ve talked about, which is a reward hormone, is also called the love hormone, right? The oxytocin, the oxytocin and dopamine are similar, right thing, so you can get a similar reaction with oxytocin, which is the love hormone, excuse me, I misspoke. You can get that, that same reward,

Dr. Jordan Williams 19:57
satisfying feeling, right?

Dr. Dale Williams 19:58
with interaction with people. That’s the social side. And so you just have to pick your your hormonal release right, and pick your way of getting access to that hormone. If we don’t get dopamine, if we don’t get oxytocin, we will physically die that mean, that’s the how important it is, but the way you’re accessing it needs to be a conscious decision. And so the social side, the interaction is important.

Dr. Jordan Williams 20:26
Well, I think. I think part of that, just like you said that, that that reaching out, building your community of people, one that are going to support your decisions as well, if you, if you are stuck with us, with a support system that supports your terrible habits. That’s not the best support, right? If you’re in a group that every time you guys go out, you go out and have too many drinks, and then go have a huge, carb heavy meal to soak up the alcohol in your stomach, and then do it again the next night, and that’s what you do now that becomes another trigger for that exact same problem that you’re dealing with, and so making sure you’re open and honest, one with yourself, and two, with the people around you. And say, I have a problem with X, Y or Z. Right now we’re talking about eating habits, but that can be any coping mechanism.

Dr. Dale Williams 21:19
And that’s the benefit with Billings. Last night’s coaches, yeah, is the coaches help you become aware of your eating patterns and your eating habits, and they become a support system for you to to help you work work through that. And so the Phase One of Billings Last Diet is really enlightening for people to identify when they ate and why they ate, because now in phase one, you are consciously eating, and you’re eating, you’re driving down everything you eat. You’re you’re you’re being very conscientious about it, and it, it points out times that you ate that you didn’t know you were eating.

Dr. Jordan Williams 22:02
Right. And those coaches, one reason they’re a great support system is you’re meeting with them weekly, typically in person, but over, over video chat or what have you, if you’re doing that remote option. But they’ve also been through the program, they know exactly what you’re going through, right? So they can say, yeah, when I was going through that that was a trigger for me, or no, you’re making it too many excuses. This is the reality. And so they can help and really be that first step to a positive support system

Dr. Dale Williams 22:34
To identify it, yeah. And now, how do we, once it’s identified? Now, how do we change it right so that we can get a different result,

Dr. Jordan Williams 22:43
Absolutely. And so just to kind of cover, kind of recap what we just talked about, emotional eating isn’t just, you know, bad habit, it can really be a psychological issue. And so the first step to kind of overcoming that is, one, identifying that it’s a problem. Two, seeing what your triggers are, and then three, having a positive cycle, that you can start to kind of break that trigger and start moving in a positive direction. Have different ways to get that dopamine hit,

Dr. Dale Williams 23:13
Yeah, to get your your rewards without necessarily having food. And it’s not that we’re going to replace all rewards we do with food. But when you do go to a birthday party and you’ve already eaten dinner and you’re gonna have a piece of cake, identify, I’m having this piece of cake because this is a social interaction, not because I’m hungry. There’s nothing wrong with that, as long as you’re consciously doing it.

Dr. Jordan Williams 23:39
Conscious, aware, and making sure you’re trying to build better coping mechanisms through exercise or reading or what’s going to work best for you. So Dr. Williams, thank you for taking this time. Thank you listeners, for tuning in. Hopefully you got some answers, realizing that this, this health journey, weight loss is much more than just deprivation. For a time, until you lose the weight. It really is a lifestyle change that you need to make from the start, being conscious and aware of yourself, of your surroundings, and why you’re actually doing what you’re doing. Thanks. Tune in next time. We’re going to talk a little bit more about well, related to emotional eating, really, it’s holidays, right? An average American will gain eight pounds from Thanksgiving to New Year’s just because that holiday season and all the social interactions and emotional eating that goes along with it. So join us next time. We’ll talk about some of those tips and tricks you can avoid gaining that holiday weight and how you can start your, maybe your health journey before New Year’s.

Dr. Dale Williams 24:38
Eating for the holidays.

Dr. Jordan Williams 24:39
That’s right. Thank you.